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| I believe
that was an excellent article expressing difficulites with being an expat
(the article on Mexico). And especially in the way expat groups deal with
and relate to the surrounding community. In most cases, I enjoy being an
expat. I relish the opportunity on a daily basis to experience a different
culture. I didn't say "perfect" culture. I said different. On a few occassions,
my bubble was burst and quite surprised, I noticed similar rudeness and
ambivalence towards others as I had witnessed in the society I had come
from. So apparently rudeness is not dependent on location or culture. That
being said, the main advantage we have is that we are ultimately "guests"...
that's what I said. If we can afford to live a slightly elevated lifestyle
in a place, it still does not give us any special rights. This I have found
is the hardest thing for many expats to realize. Coming from, in most instances,
societies where much value is placed on possessions and acoutrements and
where our status in that society is based on them....we find it awkward
and difficult to accept a different way of viewing human value. In other
words, in a small community, such as a village or town, you will find that
most people are in the same socio-economic class. They accept that and
in many cases are less neurotic about it than we are in our former society.
The first lesson....is to learn that.
But many people
can't, and instead choose to develop the same type of competitive "my palapa
is bigger than your palapa" attitude that they (unknowingly)or perhaps
forgot, they escaped from in the first place. Duh. Lacking any sensitivity...they
succumb. And become just as big a pain in the a** as they were back home!
But something further interesting happens. We are grouped together. the
same style of ethnic profiling which many of us found so unfair is now
put upon us by the locals! Can anyone blame them? Fortunately, I'm not
an American. No disrespect meant, for many
of my friends
are American and I'm Canadian. But many rude and obnoxious Americans have
come before me. It's their legacy I must first undo. Unfortunately for
the writer, he has come across a certain contingent of misguided expats.
I've met them myself if it's any consolation. They're called A**holes Without
Borders.
Very much
enjoyed your article. Vaya condios amigo.
longmayouride
|
|
Why would I ever consider moving
to Puerta Vallarta when the last thing I want is more Americans? Yeeeeech!
No me gusta.
Elizabeth |
|
| I am not surprised
about the "Lord of the Flies" observations regarding gringos in Guanajuato.
Two dangerous factors (our monotheistic background--our God is "right"
and therefore I am "right"--and our nation's success during the Industrial/Imperialistic
Age) have converged to make us one of the world's most violent societies.
From the top of our society (need we say Bush-Cheney?) to the bullies in
the schoolyard and the fathers of their victims (defend yourself), violence
is the first reaction--not reasoned arguments and certainly not communication!
After all we're
(superior) Americans and our creator has bestowed upon us the blessings
of "Manifest Destiny" and the "obligation" to continue our 400 year Indian
War. The Iraqis and Mexicans are merely two of the more recent "Indians"
and, besides, Mexico and Iraq are ours to dominate--just ask God.
Maybe the writer
can take comfort in knowing that the imminent collapse of the dollar (brought
on by our own stupidity) and resultant domination of the economic world
by China (where rationality and pragmatism trumps ideology) and the development
of "poor" countries (as they no longer find it profitable to send 70% of
their savings to the profligate Americans who only know how to consume
other people's money) will change many minds and behaviors.
Edward |
|
| Whether the
four years which Mr. Bower has lived in Guanajuato qualifies him to draw
the broad conclusions about Mexicans which he has, I don’t know. However,
since I lived in Guanajuato, Gto. from 2001 until 2005 and have lived since
then in Santiago de Queretaro, I at least feel equally justified
in weighing in on the subject.
As a foreigner
living in both those cities, I have always been warmly welcomed and treated
respectfully and courteously. I have never observed Mexicans to be anything
but polite. They are tolerant and accepting almost to a fault. It is just
not part of the Mexican culture regardless of how warranted a contrary
attitude might be in the circumstances. .
If Mexicans
in the street fail to respond to Mr. Bower, as he describes, has it ever
occurred to him that they perhaps did not understand his Spanish, or at
least his accent?
Barry Lippman |
|
After reading
the article by Doug Brouwer about relations between Americans, who do or
do not, live in Mexico and Mexicanos. I can only draw a parellel back to
my experiences living in bilingual cities in Canada. Here, the unkind or
uncultured may be rude to those who do not speak French, at all or very
well, and they may respond in English if your French is not considered
"good enough" ...do your best to at least address people initially in their
language, it is there turf. Don't be insulted if they respond in English,
at least they are acknowledging you. Don't apologize for who you are,(some
Americans abroad can be caught up in this) be polite and if you run into
rude people avoid them and find polite people. Part of the problem in Mexico
is probably from the way some politicians and the media treat Mexicans
in the US press. P.S. I am a bilingual Canadian who travels to Mexico annually
and have only had once criticism for not-speaking the language. I am currently
studying
to improve and will practice more language skills on my upcoming trip.
Remember, there are rude people in every culture and language...just move
on and find those who are receptive. They are the people worth knowing.
Cheers.
Barbara Bellemare |
|
| Can "ex-pat"
communities not see or comprehend what they are actually doing when they
choose to enclose themselves in gated, isolated communities? Can they not
seriously see what they are establishing when they impose a lifestyle that
does not include the local community in a sustainable way? Is it so dense
that they cannot see how they are cultivating an economy based on the master
/servant relationship? The indigenous population has been maligned for
decades.
This behaviour
merely a repeats an ugly historical memory in all "third world" countries
- formerly economically, ethnically raped and pillaged by Colonialists
- those expats who imposed themselves on locals-where massive exploitation
was the purpose.
Ok, so now,
it is the individual grouping together with his/her own kind for an elevated
lifestyle away from the madness of their modern motherlands - built upon
the backs and blood of many locals with ancestry that suffered - there
is residual economic suffering that continues in many countries because
of ugly politics, corporate control etc. - backed by many U.S, British
and French corporations.
Sali |
|
| Many years
ago, while still investigating possible places for retirement, I bought
a video tape featuring several cities in Mexico. One of those was
Guanajuato. As a part of the interview, the mayor commented on how
happy the city was to have foreign tourists visit and spend money in their
city and then go to San Miguel to live. His comment made it perfectly
clear that outsiders were not welcome.
It seems that
opinion has not changed. But, to some extent, I cannot blame him.
All too often the expats in a foreign locale are the 'ugly American' (another
book title well worth revisiting before leaving ones comfort zone).
I understand that the economics of San Miguel have changed so that the
local folk are having trouble just surviving with the inflated cost of
living created by the 'rich gringos' who have invaded with too much disposable
income.
We live in
a middle class Mexican colonia in the heart of Guadalajara. All our
neighbors are locals. Most of them go to work every day. A few are
retired, for this is a colonia built in the '60's. We have two dogs
which we walk twice daily. They are a bit of a curiosity and have
made it possible for us to become acquainted with many more of our neighbors
than would likely have happened otherwise. It is good. We enjoy
our colonia and our neighbors and they enjoy us. Sharing time in their
homes, and they in ours, is becoming a more frequent thing. We do
our best not to be 'ugly Americans' and the goodwill extended to us by
our neighbors shows we are succeeding. Moving to a foreign location
can be scary and creating a comfort zone for oneself can be difficult.
Insisting on things being 'like back home' can create many problems of
acceptance by locals.
We have many
expat friends also, but have no wish to be in an expat enclave. Every
time we visit friends who live along Lake Chapala or in Puerto Vallarta,
we leave with a feeling of thankfulness that we do not live in an expat
enclave.
Many of the
issues noted in the article are ones we see when we visit other areas.
Fortunately, we do not find these issues for us. But, we do not live
in an area dominated or highly influenced by an expat enclave separated
from the community.
Despite how
some of your acquaintances seem to see your view of living in Mexico, or
any other foreign locale, you are certainly entitled to state those opinions.
Too bad there are those who are not willing to discuss diverse opinions
and work toward solutions of difficulties--either via change or acceptance.
Thanks for
your efforts.
Joseph |
|
The Mexican
people I have met in Central Mexico, in general, have been anything but
what you describe in your recent article (By Doug Bower). They have been
extremely friendly, warm and forgiving. I have lived for over two years
in Cuernavaca, Morelos and Mexico City, and have come accross very very
few Mexicans who have treated me the way you describe in your article.
I believe it to be very ill-advised and unscholarly for you to publish
such a smearing article, generalizing the entire Central Mexico population
because of of a few bad experiences. Just because a person walks by you
without looking you in the eye does not necessarily mean he or she is indifferent
to you or that they "want you gone", and do you really receive anything
better in the metropolis centers of the U.S.? This negative sentiment which
you talk about between the Mexican nationals in the Center of Mexico with
those from the North, simply does not exist. At worst, some Mexicans from
smaller cities and towns may prefer to avoid "chilangos", or people from
Mexico City, but again, is that so different than a rancher in Montanna
who would prefer not to be put in a room with a professional from New York?
In all due
respect Mr. Bower, I think you need to lay off the mota and relax. If you
are having negative experiences with the people in Mexico, it is most likely
due to your own actions. I obviously do not know you personally so I don't
believe it would be appropriate to insult you personally, but if so many
local gringos are angry with you because of how you not only write about
them, but the Mexican people they live amongst, maybe, just maybe there
exists some reasoning behind their "barbaric" madness. I think it is time
for a little self-reflexion dear sir. Good day.
Shane Lewis |
|
I was very
sorry to see that you included the article, Living in Mexico: Lord of the
Flies? By Doug Bower. If you would do a little research first I think
that you would find that he only writes negative articles and loves bashing
the gringo community in San Miguel de Allende. How about writing
"Ten ways to be culturally sensitive" or... Surely there are 50 ways
for him to write a positive article addressing the issues that bother him!
Philip Hardcastle |
|
| Loved the
article by L Wharton. The most lucid attempt at putting the 'Australian
experience' into words. The Americanisation and big brother undertones
explained with subtle awareness. It sounds to all of us here in Aus that
someone is shouting "your trousers are on fire" but were' too busy burning
to hear.
However, during
the last 20 years of expat living things did start looking up (for me at
least).In 1997 in Queensland when ordering a 'long black' I did not get
a pint mug of boiling water and instant powder. I got a cup of coffee.
Prior to that I got what I asked for.
I feel L. Wharton
and I both feel Australia has something special. It certainly requires
an outsider to observe the onset of free speach erosion and absorbsion
of other complex societal anomalies.
However. The
tyrany of distance has receded, most Americans know that Australia is not
a theme park (most Americans) nor once part of the Prussian empire.
Australians
and expats now have a dilemma. We must decide is Macdonalds and Big brother
undermining the foundations of our existance as well. Or are we still
just happy.
Well,now that
my cage of complacancy has been shaken I have decided 'Im stayin' You know
what they say around here - "Love it or leave".
Best regards,
and thankyou for an excellaent article.
D Raynor,
Queensland. |
|
Australia:
Love It Or Leave It?
Great article...nice
to see that other people in the world understand
what freedom
and liberty really are about.
Thanks,
Jack |
|
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